Learning Without Scars
As a third-generation educator, it is easy to say that teaching and training are in the blood for Ron Slee. From his beginnings as a coach, through his time at McGill University, Ron developed a foundation for the work he does today. From working within dealerships, to operating a consulting company, creating a training business and running twenty groups, Ron has been directly involved in this Industry since 1969. Ron has been known as the industry expert for years, and has brought this expertise to bear through his training programs. Today, Ron provides specialized, job function based internet based subject specific classes, job function skills assessments, as well virtual seminars and webinars. These courses are designed for manufacturers and their dealers, as well as independent businesses in the construction equipment, light industrial, on-highway, engine, and agricultural industries through Learning Without Scars (www.LearningWithoutScars.com). This platform is a continuation of the work begun by Quest, Learning Centers which was established in 1996. This training is aimed at improving dealer parts and service operations through qualified people that are knowledgeable in using operational metrics and current market and operational best practice methods.
Learning Without Scars
Adapting to Change in a Multigenerational Workplace
What if navigating the fast-paced world of automotive and construction equipment could unlock profound insights into leadership and adaptability? Troy Ottmer, a veteran of these industries, joins us to share his incredible journey from an automotive technician in 1987 to a seasoned leader and consultant. Troy’s career is a testament to the power of mentorship and the impact of embracing diverse perspectives. His experiences across various roles, from Rush Enterprises to John Deere, provide a unique lens through which we explore the evolution of leadership and workforce dynamics across generations.
Managing a multi-generational workforce presents both challenges and opportunities, and this episode sheds light on how flexibility and empowerment can transform workplace dynamics. We examine the importance of open communication and active listening in creating a harmonious environment and discuss the influence of rapid technological advancements. Troy’s personal anecdotes, together with stories from other sectors like animal science, highlight the excitement and hurdles of adapting to these changes, emphasizing how generational differences can be leveraged positively in the workplace.
Finally, the conversation turns to the critical role of education in building sustainable careers. We advocate for a pragmatic approach that aligns educational paths with workforce demands, spotlighting vocational and technical education as key players in this shift. By focusing on practical skills that offer tangible economic benefits, we underscore the importance of continuous learning and adapting to change. Whether you're navigating career transitions or seeking to empower the next generation, this episode is packed with insights and inspiration for embracing diverse career paths.
Visit us at LearningWithoutScars.org for more training solutions for Equipment Dealerships - Construction, Mining, Agriculture, Cranes, Trucks and Trailers.
We provide comprehensive online learning programs for employees starting with an individualized skills assessment to a personalized employee development program designed for their skill level.
Aloha and welcome to another Candid Conversation. It's a real pleasure for me today to introduce you to a gentleman who's currently living in Houston, texas, by the name of Troy Otmer. Troy and I met each other in a classroom, I think, in Dallas some 25 years ago roughly, and he's one of the talented individuals that I love being around. That challenges me to stay current and to be able to defend my positions, because he's not afraid to challenge me. So with that as the introduction, we're just going to talk about his career, how it's evolved, the different aspects of it. He's worked in different geographies, different aspects of the business, and I think you'll find it fascinating. So with that as the introduction, troy, you ready for this young man?
Speaker 2:Yes, sir.
Speaker 1:Good to see you. Why don't we start with you giving a thumbnail of your history, from school to today?
Speaker 2:Well, I originally went to automotive tech school and started my career as an automotive technician and update myself a little bit, but all the way back in 1987. And it seems like yesterday in some respects when you look back. But then when you say it that way, you go wow, a lot of time has passed by and you know that particular career. That was my passion, that was my desire growing up as a youngster to be an auto technician. You know a lot of people call them mechanics, some people still do. A lot of people call them mechanics, some people still do.
Speaker 2:I tend to gravitate to the direction to be more technical rather than mechanical, because you need both, naturally. And that just kind of leapfrogged from automotive to medium duty oddly bus way back in that era as well, way back in that era as well, and then ended into heavy duty and then landed a unique opportunity to go to work for a John Deere construction equipment dealer Stuart and Stevenson at the time and they were in the middle of an acquisition by Rush Enterprises all the way back in 1997. And once the dust settled on the acquisition, I became part of that team in 1998 with Rush. And so you know, from the automotive career into medium duty to heavy duty, to John Deere construction equipment. Then, you know, just work my way through the uh dealer channel at at Rush and all departments started in uh parts, even though I came from a technician background. Uh, a window open to go into the parts department and I thought, you know, you know hey.
Speaker 2:I want to get an understanding of that department and really wasn't a big fan of being a parts person. But what I thought was a negative actually became a positive and I started looking at life in a little bit different perspective.
Speaker 2:like, hey, I'm going to be a sponge and try to absorb as much as I can as I go forward and just kind of work my way through it. And that led into other aspects of the dealership, not only within the full scope of a parts department. Put me back in the service department, ended up in the rental department and the sales department and Caterpillar calls them PSSRs, john Deere called them CSAs customer service advisors Went out in the field selling. You know what I would call technical sales, parts and service. And you know the real drivers for the back end of the dealership and continued there. I worked, you know, for Rush for almost 14 years until they sold the dealer to another group and I went with that acquisition, held various positions in the John Deere dealer group organizations, all the way from parts counter to branch manager, general manager, director of parts service. Publicly traded company out of Pittsburgh called Coppers, with a K Coppers Inc.
Speaker 2:And they were in acquisition mode and, with my fleet background and automotive and field service management background, along with the dealer background, they were looking for someone to help them do acquisitions and roll up a variety of things into their business portfolio. They're a chemical company. They create railroad ties, creosote railroad ties. They do a variety of things. They were putting everything back together as a circle of life. You sell a railroad tie out, you take a railroad tie back in, you reprocess it, you repurpose it into a different application in this case, biomass fuel, work with power plants, paper mills, anything with a boiler to burn these type of fuels, co-gen plants. And I did that from 2017 until 2000, the latter part of 20. And that was a good exposure.
Speaker 2:I've lived in Michigan a handful of years for Rush and I traveled to Michigan and many other states over the years for a variety of business opportunities and it's just been a fabulous opportunity. And then I returned to Rush at the end of 2020 and helped them with a project of bringing together their medium duty bus and towing group into a new project that they were looking at doing. And you know it ended you know really well with a good time for me to transition into the consulting realm and I want to help people. You know, like you've helped people. When you and I first met all those years ago and you know, and you've been a great mentor to me, I followed your career and we bumped heads on a few things here and there and disagreed on a few things and helped each other see the world from different perspectives, and you know, and and that's kind of why we're talking today so let's you know, you're roughly 20 years younger with 20 years less experience.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's right and no, no, that's not a bad thing, no thing. But as we look over the country and we look at the, let's stay with dealer, automotive, county, municipality, education, the men and women that are leading the dealerships today, and let me put them in their late 30s. I'm in the late 70s, you're late 50s, they're in the late 30s. Tell me what you see with them. That's different than what you and I had when we are in the business.
Speaker 2:You know, the workforce is uniquely different today than anything that any of us have ever experienced and, at least in my opinion, you know the Gen Zs, the Gen Ys or millennials, whichever way they go. I get them all confused. I'm a Gen Xer and such, I'm a Gen Xer and such. But you know the challenges with young leaders today and I say challenges and that sounds as a negative, but I'll explain their ability to lead is not necessarily worse or better, it's different and it's oftentimes misunderstood. And that's been one of the struggles with some of the projects I've worked on. For you know, in the last decade, for you know three, actually four different companies, I've really helped make some significant change management decisions and a lot of times those are very painful.
Speaker 2:And the difference between you know, your generation, the boomers, right, you know, is the type of work, ethic, right, and there's a natural assumption that the younger generations don't necessarily want to work and there may be some truth to that.
Speaker 2:But what I've found is being in my late 50s, if you can stay relevant to that generation's perspective, what they're looking for, you practice intentional listening. Now, my intentional listening for you would be different than a 38-year-old or a 28-year-old, right? You would be different than a 38 year old or a 28 year old. Right, I'm catering my listening style to the audience I'm speaking with and if it's different people in the room you're going to, you're going to flip back and forth routinely as you have these conversations, because these, these youngsters, will challenge you, sometimes in ways that make no sense and for the older participants sometimes it can come across as insubordination or condescending attitude or just complete dismissal. Likewise, it's interesting to say the young generation. When you really get down in the weeds with them, they'll say look, you older people don't really want to listen, you don't care what I think You're condescending, you dismiss it.
Speaker 1:Stop there for a second, because I believe that's completely true. The older, there's still people that are in the generation that preceded mine, the baby boomers and as baby boomers, we were children raised by people that grew up in the Depression and experienced a war that colored everything that they did. Everything that they did was to protect the family, whether it's earnings, whether it's athletics, whether it's church, whatever. It is Right and that's gone. And it's not a work ethic issue as much as it's an expectation issue. Correct, both you and I can do every job that's involved in anything that we're involved with the dealer on and that's off-putting to a lot of people. I've often said to people you really don't want me to do your job for you? Do you really don't want me to do your job for you? Do me, do you? One of the things that Harry Truman was famous for is not just the buck stops here, but the one I like the best is if I have to do your job for you, I really don't need you. Correct, right, and your your comment that the younger people don't think we pay attention to them or don't listen to them or don't treat them seriously.
Speaker 1:I think the older generations are determining strategy for their businesses. And in the American business community, every year there's surveys on the success that companies have of implementing their strategy and the average number over the last 30 years or so has been 10%. In other words, 90% don't do it, don't get it done. And to me, the biggest failure there is again in survey data. If you ask the employees of a company to say what the strategy is, they can't tell you Correct. And that's the listening and communication thing and that's what leadership's job is. Yes, so when the folks say you don't listen to me, I believe they're right, and the surveys on successfully implementing change or realizing success on a strategy indicate that they're right realizing success on a strategy indicate that they're right.
Speaker 2:Well, and to step in and add to that, in one of your recent podcasts with another individual you guys were talking about you know interactions with employees and one of the just takeaways was why do you wait till the exit interview to try to figure out why they're leaving? And it's too late. What were you not doing along the way up to that point?
Speaker 1:right, yeah, I remember that discussion, and one of the things that was in that discussion as well is I like to have a guy, an employee, a guy a gal. After three months, four months, I want them to come and tell me you know, what do we do that you think is absolutely a waste of time? What do you see that we should be doing that we're not Because they got fresh eyes? Yes, and we don't. Hardly anybody asks that question and we don't hardly anybody ask that question.
Speaker 2:Well, leaders are. In some cases people will, let's just say, managers. You know managing and leading they're one in the same, but they're not, and you know managing people is. You know it has nuances that you still have to do. Yeah, we have to manage our business, but my philosophy is I'd rather lead my business. I'd rather give the people that I work with on the team the latitude and flexibility, trust, empowerment to do their job and, more importantly, always be willing to have an open door policy and get their feedback.
Speaker 2:Look, pushback criticism constructive criticism oftentimes gets, you know, cluttered in with insubordination, and oftentimes that's where managers that aren't really paying attention to what matters most get themselves in a pinch. And you know, when someone comes in my office and says, hey, I got a problem, or they're pretty hot right, they're frustrated, maybe not mad at me, they just got a situation. First question I ask is you know, depending on the scenario, if it's an emergency or an injury, then hey, what's going on right? But in a general, regular, emotional moment, hey, what would you like to do about the thing you just brought to me? What do you think the best thing to do is? And you get this weird look sometimes like you really want to know what I think, and sometimes they'll say that you really want to know. Absolutely, I do want to know, I want to understand what you see and why you the way you see it, and maybe we can't do it the way you want. Then I'll take the time and try to explain the corporate reason, because there may be some legal or ethical or process reasons. We can't do something.
Speaker 2:But oftentimes you'll find a nugget or two of information that you can use and I say it that way, a nugget or two because it is like there's little bits and pieces that you can pull together and when that person leaves, they hopefully leave better than they came to the party.
Speaker 2:Right, and that really is the motivation and I bring that up because older people my age, your age in between, possibly even older than you are staying in the workforce or coming back into the workforce for a variety of reasons. Maybe it's not even financial, maybe in some cases it's because they don't want to sit at home and stare at the wall or watch tv all day. So now you have this mixture of 80, 70, and 60-year-olds starting to work with 20 and 30-year-olds, and on the surface that seems like it could be a problem, but in the right environment, with the right focus and right understanding, right listening skills. And in the previous conversation you and I mentioned predictive index. A lot of companies are using the PI and some of them use it incorrectly and they take it as the whole truth and nothing but the truth and that's the final answer based on the results that come out of that inquiry.
Speaker 2:But if you use that or other similar technologies or methods as a tool, you can find that this unique workforce that we have can be very effective in today's world, today's economy, especially the post-pandemic world, because we've all went through some craziness that none of us have ever experienced before.
Speaker 1:You know you take the 60, 70, 80-year-olds and when's the last time they went to a school and had some learning? When's the last time they took a class outside of the OEM stuff? Right, it's non-existent. I used to start almost all my classes with when's the last time you read a book? And that's shameful.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir, yeah so we get into this situation and that's shameful. Yes, sir, yeah, so we get into this situation. So we're talking 60, 70, 80 with 20-year-olds, that's your grandchildren. I've got a 23-year-old and a 19-year-old grandchild and I'm 78. And I have more fun with those two suckers than you can imagine. They're both hardworking, they're both disciplined. They're both hardworking, they're both disciplined, they're both smart, they both have unique skills. My granddaughter is teaching two classes at an undergraduate level and running two labs for the school in animal science, which isn't veterinary science. It's a completely different gig and she's over the moon with excitement about it and her students love her. And a year ago we're talking about would you like to teach, would you like to get your doctorate?
Speaker 1:And she said no, I don't need a doctorate, because the only place that's worthwhile is if you teach at the university. Now maybe I should get a doctorate pumping, but I have no clue what she's going to do. The interesting thing about life today for the younger people is technology is coming at us fast and furious. Yes, my writings how I used the metaphor of the steam engine in 1880 being replaced by the electric energy, and it took a energy engine and it took a generation before the engine was properly utilized, with different methods and processes and and metrics. And I just put something up. In the last couple of years I went back to 1950 and looked at technological changes by the decade and different people could have used different things. But my point with it is every 10 years, for the last 70, 80 years, we've come up with something that's pretty damn major.
Speaker 1:Yeah true, and it scared the bejesus out of everybody. They don't know how to deal with it because they can't keep up with it. It happened to me. I was trained at university in data processing, computer science, unit record equipment. My God, I wired that stuff. I'm a dinosaur. And I was brought into the States to run a software company and in the late 80s I had to give up trying to keep up with it because it was changing too fast. It was taking too much of my time. I said screw it, I'm not going to deal with that anymore.
Speaker 1:I had a social worker interacting with me over the last month or so and I talked about careers and how we were going to have to retool society and she said don't worry about it, ron, they're going to have roughly eight to 10 year careers and they might go in a completely different direction. Which takes me to my grandson, who's the smartest in the family by a long shot. I hope he doesn't hear this. That'll go right to his head, but he's going to have nuclear engineering and astrophysics master's degrees by the time he's 20. Wow, and I'm serious.
Speaker 1:He's quite extraordinary and thank God he's in the Navy. Thank God, that's true, because all of his friends from high school he's still involved with. They're at universities, Party Time, usa, cocaine babes, everything right, right. And his grandson would be right there with him. Thank God he's got the Navy keeping him so damn busy he doesn't have anything to do. Well, this kid makes clothing on a sewing machine, is involved in makeup, wants to own a restaurant, he's a hell of a cook, plays the piano and keyboards I mean there's. So I say to him what are you going to do when you grow up? He said I haven't got any clue. It's just like you, poppy, where you keep saying to me you don't know what you're going to do when you grow up, to your point of people coming back into the workforce. The job has defined the person.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And when they retire, they don't know who they are. And isn't that a horrible thing? I've said to people for years you've probably heard it out of my mouth you retire to something, not from something Correct. Yes, you haven't got something to retire to, don't retire, right?
Speaker 2:well, that's very true and that's with the older generation that has come back into the workforces for me that I've dealt with in the last 10 years or so, back into the workforces for me that I've dealt with in the last 10 years or so. That is predominantly the phrase they use when they come into interview.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know who I am anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I would add too, on the looking back at well, I've moved in the industrial distribution space has been my career for 38 years or so, because that's where automotive, trucking, construction equipment and it fits other spaces too. But that wording is the best application and even when I worked on the customer side, which is twice during that 38 years, I got about 10 to 12 years of the 38 are related to being a customer, so dealing with a dealer as a customer, and so I found this perspective that I've had. I can see both sides and I can understand the dealer side. Look, I want a fair deal, but at the same time I also know that paying that low price per hour but it takes six months to get my tractor rebuilt, whereas the dealer is a high price per hour and I get it back in three months Well, my uptime utilization that's far more cost-effective to do and being able to navigate that on both sides of that conversation, I still utilize that skill set learned over time.
Speaker 2:So what I'm driving at is, even though the technologies have changed and you're right these step function improvements that we've seen with technology. It's coming fast and it's almost I would even challenge in some applications, especially with AI. You know, and a lot of people think AI is a brand new thing in the last 12 months. No, it's been in the background for a while in a lot of different forms and fashion. And you know, and one of the challenges is this technology changes so quickly. Some of the older generation, a lot of people, just naturally assume they're not willing to jump on board with technology.
Speaker 2:And I have found that the older generation to be more in tune with the adaptability to current technology than you would expect. So being dismissive to that particular labor market or labor pool is a mistake, and it's hard to find people that want to work in dealers or a front facing business where you've got to come to an office every day and you hear Amazon and all these other big companies making demands You're coming back to the office or you're fired, right? Look, remote work does exist in a lot of ways and with the one company Coppers I mentioned, a lot of my work was remote. I was moving around on an airplane, I'm working out of a hotel.
Speaker 1:I did have an office but I was not in it as often as I was somewhere else and it can be done.
Speaker 2:It's not for everybody. But the application of technology like look at you and I we're on a Zoom call and yeah, we had a little bit of Zoom snafu getting this to work today, but sometimes that happens but for the most part this technology is very forgiving, very easy to use and I think that's where, when you're hiring and you're in the dealer world, going specifically to that, I think there's a good balance that I'm starting to see across the dealers, whether it's truck or automotive or construction, forestry or even ag and you and I were chatting earlier, john Deere Ag is well ahead of a lot of other of their peers out there and you know, and they kind of set the example. They don't get it right all the time either, but when you look back historically at what they did, where they came from and kind of a lot of the things we're talking about today electrification I was working on John Deere products as a committee advisor with John Deere on EV projects and or products. While we were doing interim tier four and final tier four preparation, there were EV things that I was consulting on as a deer dealer. You know I couldn't talk about them way back in the day because there was NDAs and such. But today that's commonplace EV. Look at that. So bringing this all together, it's kind of a perfect storm in a good way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's unbelievable. There's a test dealer in Saskatchewan, about an hour and a half south of Saskatoon, that was a client of mine and John Deere used them for testing, planting and harvesting equipment, were looking at from the satellite, evaluating the soil, nutrients, moisture content, and had in the hopper at the back of the planter different seeds depending on what that field needed, and it was planted by air to a specific depth depending on what the satellite said. The guy who was in the machine and I'm assuming at the moment there was a guy in the machine didn't have anything to do with it. He just had to make sure he was driving straight and then to take that further.
Speaker 1:We're talking in Saskatchewan to farms that are 40,000 acres 80,000 acres. They're run by religious sects which you know, like the Amish in the States, is a little bit scary for a lot of people because we don't understand it. But what those people would do is they'd buy a machine, they'd use it for the particular season, then they'd give it back. So this particular dealer was making a fortune on used equipment that had maybe $500 on it, sold into the States where there was a 30% premium in currency and life is very good. Thank you very much. And you know so, there's a business model that hardly anybody would want to look at. But the thing that makes, I think, you different than the guys today and I use this analogy all the time the conductor is the only musician that has his back to the customer, whose success is totally dependent not on their interaction with the customer but their interaction with their team in front of them. They bring the music Together. The orchestra and the conductor determine the mood that I try and deliver. That with.
Speaker 1:But the music's, the music's, the music, and Beethoven has not changed and Chopin has not changed. But I'll still pry my eyes out, depending on how the thing is presented.
Speaker 2:Well, and you know, funny note I'd like to say on the tractors you mentioned, back in the early 90s when, as I transitioned into fleet management, the company I worked for they were a large dirt contractor and those tractors you referenced, we were buying Stigers etc. We were buying those that were one or two years old, just like that, one season maybe, maybe two max. We were buying those. Those became our scraper tractors pulling either two or three pans, whatever the mode of operation was. And it's interesting, we've never talked about that, but it's kind of weird that our paths kind of have crossed in different ways with who we've touched in our careers. And the second thing I would say is going back, as your reference to the conductor, as you referenced to the conductor, regardless of the leadership position I'm in, whether it's dealer world, whether it's customer world, fleet operations, what have you?
Speaker 2:plant operations, biomass production that conductor's job is essentially the same. Your customer may be different, your customer interaction may be different, but the conductor you're right has his back to the customer generally. Your customer interaction may be different, but the conductor you're right has his back to the customer generally. Where I have learned is to really do my best, is to help influence the creativity of each individual and see how those teams interact. And look sometimes you have bad teams. Oftentimes you have bad leaders right or bad managers. You got to sort through that and I'll be the first to admit I've not got every hiring decision right either, and occasionally it happens.
Speaker 1:But you. The hardest job in any enterprise is hiring.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:It's a beauty contest. Yes, so this predictive index and DISC and Briggs-Myers and all that stuff is the back of my hand and has been for 40 years, which makes me quite different, actually. But then the other thing that was different, troy, is that I swam competitively Okay, and I learned at a very young age. It's not about me competing with anybody else, it's about me competing with myself, and that's a tough lesson. And then the final thing is we're raised in a manner in which we're taught to be obedient. Our parents are protecting us. Don't put your hand on the stove. Look both ways before you cross the street. And at some point in time in the growth process teenage years the teenager pushes back and said yeah, who are you?
Speaker 2:You don't know anything.
Speaker 1:I know better than you, and so now it becomes a competition, right? So the parent-child is a competition, the old style management, and you wanted to draw a distinction between leader and manager, and I agree 100%. You don't manage people, you lead people, and manager is a hyphenated word. It's a man-ager and I don't mean to be sexist because it's a female ager too but we get out into the marketplace and we don't know how to do this. You're obedient in the family. You're obedient at school. You're obedient when you get hired. You're trained how to do the job. Don't look over the wall, just do more of it, make fewer mistakes and you're going to be fine. We've broached artificial intelligence, one of our contributors who's got a couple of PhDs, economics and history taught at Northwestern. 21 bestsellers, new York Times pretty sharp guy. He says by 2030, and we argue about the specific date but by 2030, 50% of the American workforce, that's 75 million people will not have the skills to be employable, correct, so go back to that social worker.
Speaker 1:That's what the genesis was, or the seed was of the discussion we were having. How's society going to function when 75 million people are carrying 350?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, tough.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a different world, babe. Well, and on that note, one school district that I'm actually working with and I'm a product, just to clarify before I go into that I'm a product of, just to clarify before I go into that, I'm a product of the vocational technical program. So my original path was not to go to college and that didn't set well with family. But hey, I'm hard-headed, I know everything at that age, right, and so I went a different path and for me that path was the best path late. But as I was going along that journey, on that path, I did realize that I did need that other education along the way. So I continued down that path as life went on and then you know it's a.
Speaker 2:It's a different journey than just jumping out of high school and four years of college or a couple more years for a master's, this, that and the other. But when I was talking with these high school level so junior or, excuse me, sophomores, juniors and or seniors that are in either welding tech, diesel tech or auto tech programs and they spread out, but that's the basics tech programs and they spread out, but that's the basics, you know it's. I talk about the employability of the future workforce and the critical nature of why technical and vocational skills should not be dismissed as unimportant, and I talk a lot with counselors as well about that. And you know I'm starting to see in some schools and I know this is a, I'm probably trying to change too much at once, but it's a slow curve I'm starting to see that their schools are starting to figure that out that, hey, not everybody's going to go to a four-year graduate program or any type of you know, postgraduate degree, but the one year or two year associate level technical programs are a lot of value.
Speaker 2:So you see, you can see a shift. But I do talk a lot about that and the employability of the future workforce, or rather, as I say, it said in one of my most recent conversations, the lack thereof the lack thereof.
Speaker 1:It's really remarkable, I'm going to say. Since the 60s, society in America has said get a degree and you'll be fine. My grandmother got a master's in 1915. She spoke fluently in Greek and Latin, smart like hell. She was the oldest of three girls and her father treated her like his son, and my parents both worked. So I had the pleasure of being raised by my grandmother for the first three or four years of my life, which I think is a wonderful thing.
Speaker 1:A parent-child relationship is competitive. A grandparent-grandchild relationship is just love, correct, Yep, and you've heard me say this. Anybody asks me a question today that they want me to do something. I'll say yes, because it confuses the hell out of them. Now it doesn't mean that I'm saying yes to what they're asking me for. I might have to have a discussion so I better understand what it is they're looking for and they better understand what they're looking for. Fair.
Speaker 1:But there's very few people. That's why I like chatting with you. There's very few people like you today that are able to implement change. So that goes back to leadership again and management. Our job function as a leader is implementing change period, and we're terrible at it. We don't want to do it. We've got an equilibrium in society. We've got peace and tranquility in the company. We're not fighting with each other and we don't want to challenge that.
Speaker 1:And the older you get, the more you want to protect the status quo, because you're scared to death that you change something. You're going to screw it up Because you don't know what the job is anymore. So go down to the 30-year-old, the 20 years younger than you. They can't do the job like you used to be and they have no interest in trying to do the job. And they go from metrics, they go from KPIs. They're all wonderful and that's all past tense. That has nothing to do with tomorrow, correct.
Speaker 1:And when you sit down and you poke I love doing this I get a group of guys mostly guys and we'll have four or five or six and we'll have a Zoom call and we'll just have a discussion and I like to teach in what is called the Socratic method. I don't answer questions, I ask them. I'm trying to get you to come to the conclusion yourself, because I'm not just teaching the curriculum, I'm teaching you how to teach yourself, so you don't need me in the future. It's a lifelong skill. Versus you know, I know how to add and subtract.
Speaker 1:And I had a guy. I took mathematics and physics as my majors and I was part of an honors program with computer science and statistics as my minors and we all had a guy on heat and thermodynamics in our second year and the passing grade was 18, and it didn't mark on a curve and I failed. And one person passed and it was a woman. She was by far the smartest person in the class. It was amazing. So we go to this guy. He's got a PhD in applied physics, a concert pianist and he's 28 years old and he said wait a second what are you trying to do to me?
Speaker 1:So I'm only here to teach the people that are capable. And what a crock of crap. We went to the dean, the dean supported the next year he was gone, but in the meantime all of us I don't know, there was about maybe 20. I don't know the exact number. We weren't in the honors program anymore, we were majoring in this stuff. That didn't hurt my feelings because you know, it became pretty clear very, very quickly to me, Troy, that an experience and a history of being able to find a solution not always, but down there most of the time- well and you know you bring up a good point with you know that particular professor you mentioned a lot of managers and so-called leaders approach it in a similar fashion.
Speaker 2:Right, I've heard general managers, I've heard VPs and I've heard this personally. I've seen it, you know, had to help correct it where they'll come in. And hey, for you folks that don't have a college degree, you'll never get promoted, you'll never be successful, you'll never make money whatever. And you know, and it demotivates people to the point where you know, it's even toxic to the people with degrees, because what they don't realize is is the underlying impact it has on the entire workforce, regardless of your academic status. And you know what my preference is is what you just said is hey, tell me what the problem is and let's see where it takes us. What is the root cause of the issue and what do you find along the way? And if I go into, say, a parts department to do an evaluation, I'm going to look, listen, learn, do a lot more looking, listening and learning, ask questions, give you know, unless the building's on fire, I'm not going to give a lot of directives. Initially, I'm going to absorb, but more importantly, I'm going to get to know the players who they are, and I'm not just going to focus on the parts manager, assistant parts manager or what have you. I'm going to focus on all the players equally, of course. But you know, and then you figure out what the real dynamic is and you know people, companies say, hey, I want to. I want to improve our culture OK. Well, that's very vague and ambiguous. Or, hey, I want to improve my parts turns OK. Or I want to improve my parts turns Okay. Or I want to improve my dead inventory Get that out of here Okay.
Speaker 2:Again, those are very specific on the surface, but when you really get down in the weeds, as you know that, you can open up Pandora's box and you may regret that. And oftentimes you know, you figure out that there's a lot more to some of these people. And the initial assessment would be and I've taken over projects where they say, hey, this person needs to go, that person needs to go, and I say, hey, like, let me make my own decisions, let me do my evaluation and figure this out and nine times out of 10, most of the people on the surface that they said need to go, they don't need to go. What they need is guidance, they need understanding, they need tutoring, they need mentoring, and I want to empower people. Hey, okay, I'm the general manager, I'm the VP, I'm the parts manager, whatever my title is. Congratulations to me. Now, let me hang that on the wall. Now let's get our hands dirty and go figure out how this parts department is failing and, more importantly, you guys can't be failing at everything. So where are you succeeding?
Speaker 2:Let's figure that out and you know it's a very methodical approach but it's also a little bit loose, where you just nature has to take its course to some degree. Again, the buildings on fire address it, but the rest of it you, you evaluate and you've done far more evaluations of dealer groups and other business units than I have. But you know, you know I've worked in these environments and and in and around places you've touched and done evaluations on and you know you've seen those things too, I'm sure, where you know, oftentimes it may be the dealer principle that's actually the problem.
Speaker 1:In many cases it is. You know, we had I started in Quebec and a company was named Hewitt Equipment. It was founded by Bob Hewitt and two of his brothers. Bob was the vice president of sales for the Caterpillar dealer in Ontario, the next province over. When I became data processing manager, we had three sets of books one for Bob, one for the managers in the company and one for his two brothers. Then we had another one for the managers in the company and one for his two brothers, and then we had another one for the government and I asked him about that.
Speaker 1:I said we've got three sets of books here. I understand what you're doing, but is that what you really want to do? And he looked at me and he smiled. He says I'm not going to tell my brothers what the hell's going on over here. They'll start interfering. Right I'm looking over my shoulder the management. He said I do want to tell them how well they're doing.
Speaker 1:And we had a once a year meeting that was called Profitable Development for Quebec, which got initiated to PDQ, and we'd start on a Thursday night. We'd go out of town there was maybe 100 men, all men. There's no women at that time and we'd meet Friday, saturday and Sunday and we got unbelievable amounts of things done because the salvation of communication was present every night. Everybody drank and inhibitions disappeared. Yeah, and you know I'm not advocating that you get into the booze or anything, but it happens. But I want people to be able to say to me whatever the hell they want.
Speaker 1:I had a client in Moscow one year. The guy was in his late 30s, had a master's degree, a parent of three children and I had. My standard question is is there anything that you would like to do that would make your job easier and the company more money. And he looked me straight in the face and said don't ask questions like that, just tell me what you want me to do, and that's the Russian Federation.
Speaker 1:Well, we're not in the Russian Federation, and the people that are doing the job should be the ones that know how to do that job better than anybody else, and anybody who's interested in making things better that doesn't ask is stupid. And so you know we've we've gone down those paths. And here comes Mike Rowe, dirty jobs, yep. And you know that we do a lot of education now and and you can get an associate's degree with this. I'm a couple of courses short to be able to give you a bachelor's degree, but we have about 110 academic credits you can earn with us. I've got schools that represent us, but a school model is 25 years and old and down on a campus with a syllabus, and if they're over a certain age, they're not interested in what we offer, because we're offering 16 to 76. Correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The people that are out there working and we're now getting certain states that we're getting the state to reimburse the tuition costs based on the student taking it and passing, meaning the education from us is free. My grandson, I mentioned to you, wanted to get a nuclear engineering degree and he wanted to go to Purdue and he was accepted. He was happy as a clam. And we're sitting talking about it six months after 17, and we're chatting about this. He said, bobby, it's $350,000 for my degree. Wow, even with all my scholarships, it's $170,000. I'm not doing that, I can't afford to do that. And if you think about society, student loans is right up there with car loans and mortgages. It's actually the largest single debt that people have today in America. Right, it's delayed. All manner of things Home purchases, family development, child it's unbelievable.
Speaker 1:So I would go into a company, I would do a review, they'd pay me for a review, I'd give them a final report and it basically had a bunch of to-dos and financial management justifications, all the rest. And I would ask them and you've heard me say this I would ask them okay, have you got people in mind that could implement this for you? And they said yeah. So three months, six months later, being the pretty face that I am, I would call and say how are you making out? Well, we haven't started yet, we're too busy. And after about a year and a half or so of that, I started saying to them have you got anybody in mind for this? And they would say yes, or, if you're interested, I could do it for you.
Speaker 1:And then all of a sudden I became busier than I could manage. You know, and the same thing is still true today. But people say it's because of the price of the machine. In Canada there's two Caterpillar dealers. Today there were 10. When I started. In America, there were 50 Caterpillar dealers. When I started there might be 20 today. Dealers when I started, there might be 20 today.
Speaker 1:So that consolidation has been blamed on the price of machinery. The dealer in the supply chain is at risk. I believe they will be gone in the next 10 to 15 years and it's because of their own inactivity. How many dealers do you know that allow the customer to order parts online or their technicians to order parts from the bay?
Speaker 2:They fight it. They still fight it.
Speaker 1:I know and you know, I've been blessed with all kinds of experiences that I couldn't have scripted. That helped me get to the skill set if you can call it that that I have, or the experiences that I have. Younger people aren't getting that today.
Speaker 2:Well, to that point, ron, you know the two dealers that I've worked with, doggett and Rush, through my career. They they're both forward thinking and want their technicians to work more efficiently, not walk from one end of the shop to the parts department and back and forth, and they want their customers to buy from them through all means available and online, telephone, et cetera.
Speaker 2:And in both companies you know companies, you know I'm not biased to either one, but I call out you know, hey, they're forward thinking, they got their act together and that's respect and you can see the fruits of that effort. You know as it's worked out and I've seen it firsthand with both companies. And you know I haven't been with Doggett since 2017, and I follow them on LinkedIn, their website. I still know quite a few people there. They're one of the premier John dealers in the United States today.
Speaker 1:Well, and Rush is in the same category. You were with a very impressive dealer, premier right. And you know when I say that the dealer's at risk, the only parts business they're going to have risk, the only parts business they're going to have unless they get with the program, is what other people don't have. That's right, yeah. And when you look at Napa, which is owned by Genuine Parts, which is owned by General Motors, ford, chrysler, blah, blah, blah, a publicly traded company that has an average gross margin of 38.3%.
Speaker 1:The dealers don't get that much. I remember a very good dealer in the Northeast. One of the things that I'm really a pain in the butt about is inventory turnover, because that drives pricing.
Speaker 2:Yes, it does.
Speaker 1:But it drives pricing. And they were really bragging and saying, jesus, you know, we're really good. We got six, seven, eight times turnover, depending on the store. I said, really, that's what do you think? Where were you? Oh, we were one and a half, two and a half, like everybody else in the industry, and I said well, how long does it take you to get a stock order anymore? They said, well, maybe three days. And I said well, why do you need the other 57 days of inventory? And they looked because if I'm turning the inventory six times, I've got 60 days supply. And they looked at me and said what do you mean supply? And they looked at me and said what do you mean? Well, you've got. Why isn't your turnover 12 times? Only carry 30 days supply instead of 60?.
Speaker 1:Is the service level going to go down? Well, yeah, it might. Yeah, because of abnormal demand or because of a factory shortage, there are finite numbers of reasons. And they said, well, what do you think our turnover should be? I said north of 20. And they almost choked and the owner's looking at me saying do you realize what my return on inventory would be then? 30% gross, turning at 20 times, that's 600%.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:I mean hello, and you can do that in every aspect of the business, including equipment sales. So that, contractor, you mentioned that you bought one year and two year old machines they were ahead of the curve because, the value of the asset.
Speaker 1:Like cars, you drive it off the parking lot. It's 35% cheaper. Right there, yep, I've had Volvos and I haven't had a Volvo that had less than 300,000 miles on it. What's this nonsense about? Every 40,000, we change the car. That's society. That's who we are as people. We're competing with our neighbors. I want to be better than you. I want to have more than you. It has nothing to do with more or better. Are you happy, correct? And the younger generation are much smarter because they're focusing on that. My granddaughter calls it quiet, quitting. I'm only going to give you as much work as I need to do to keep my job and get my pay, because I'm not interested in what I'm doing. I'm going to have a hell of a lot more fun when I'm outside of the job.
Speaker 2:Well, and that my wife works in corporate insurance. She's in big insurance brokerage and that is one of the. We routinely talk about that and about the younger generation and how they work and we balance things off of each other and one of the things that's common is we have to be very task-specific to these younger generations. So during that window that they're willing to give you and you've got to target their skill set, their capabilities, how they focus, how they listen and the approach. The old adage everybody got to be treated the same still stands, but that's not reality. Everybody's treated the same relative to their own uniqueness and and the.
Speaker 1:And the problem with you're absolutely right. And the problem with that is most of us don't realize or don't understand how to determine Correct. The things that I try and do with our company is I want to help people identify what their personal and professional potential is. Yes, correct, and that's not easy, that's scary. And if we get to the point of understanding what that potential is, then I throw my crazy comments out.
Speaker 1:If somebody tells you you got a lot of potential, you're 16 years old, congratulations, this is really good, you're going to have a good life. But if that same person says the same thing to you and you're 66, you have to say what the hell have I done for the last 50 years? And that's life. We get busy doing other things and we lose sight of what we should be doing. And the younger generation, I think, are much more in tune with that than my generation. When I came out of school it was 1968 and it was a tough time to get a job. I wanted to work for IBM, couldn't do it, couldn't get in there, they weren't hiring. And so you find alternatives. But everybody said to me and my family and the people that I respected elders in church and this type of thing take your time, ron, because you're going to be there for the rest of your life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's 1968, and today well, there was a guy at mcgill where I worked. Wilder penfield was his name. He said you change your career when you're 50 years old. You'll extend your life by 10 years. You'll get completely re-energized. So we can keep doing this thing for hours, but I want to put a circle on this, because we're getting close to an hour, okay, and we've covered a lot of ground. What's your observation about this discussion?
Speaker 2:Well, a key takeaway, that kind of you reinforce something that that's always Really driven me, and I think it really applies once again to the younger workforce coming in that we're dealing with, the 30-year-old-ish plus or minus is, you know, their adaptability to technology is exponentially faster than yours or mine, no question. It's like they arrive at the hospital on the day of delivery able to operate an iPhone, right, and that's a joke, but you know it's so that that is what a leader and or even a manager we'll give a manager a little leeway here they need to be taught, leaders and managers, to recognize the human differential. And, look, I'm not a psychologist or anything like that, but I've worked with and managed in teams of nearly 400 people in some form or fashion right, not all directly, but you know it's and those interactions, you know, finding the uniqueness in each individual person, regardless of age, is, I think, critically important going forward into the next decade, right between now and 2035. And a lot of consulting conversations I've had recently, 2035 is the buzzword that a lot of folks are using. You know.
Speaker 2:I think, like you said, you and the gentleman were having the debate on 2030 for AI and the workforce capabilities, et cetera, but 2035 ties in in a similar context. I've had the good fortune even though I came from a different direction and operational background with with its rush or dogged or coppers, and I ended up working with a dotted line reporting structure to a controller and or a CFO and kind of thought that was always a little weird. But as life went on I realized that that was more valuable to me because I had one leg as an operator in the operation and one leg in the accounting side. And now I got to see why the accountants wanted it this way. And you know, it's funny. A couple of years ago an auditor was doing a dealer review and he said are you a CPA.
Speaker 2:I said no, and I said why he goes. And you talk a lot like that and you, you, you approach business. I said oh. I said well, it's because of the interactions I've had with these people over the years. And when I say I'm blessed, I would counsel people look, align with good leaders and good managers, because some people that are managers or department leaders or managers don't necessarily want to be big time top level folks, but there's so much information that can be gleaned at that level. And again, I would tell the younger workforce be patient with the older and, more importantly for myself yourself, others in our age range. Hey, embrace these folks that are coming and you guys can do some wonderful things. And I've been the benefactor of that, seeing some of the operations that I've ran in the last decade using that philosophy very well and leaving behind highly functional teams that once they realize I'm gone, they're still doing just fine. And that was my initial purpose.
Speaker 1:That's a wonderful way to listened this far is thinking. One of the things I say to employees is if they're not learning on the job, it's time to change jobs, and that scares a lot of employees. It scares a lot of companies, yes, but our responsibility is to develop people. Companies, yes, but our responsibility is to develop people. Our responsibility as a society is to have people that are educated to the point that they can continue our society, and we've got universities that are offering degrees.
Speaker 1:I'd love to see a situation where every single class is evaluated at every single school in the country, and the question that's asked is if I know that, can I make a living wage? If I can't, I'm not going to leave the class there, I'm going to get rid of it, and you get rid of 70% of the classes that are out there, and I'm not going to name them, but you can probably figure them all out. So you know, I hope we can have this kind of discussion again, troy, and maybe we'll get more specific on some of the other ones in the future. But to the audience out there, thank you for listening. I hope you got something out of this and I look forward to having you attend another candid conversation in the very near future. Thank you for your time, ron, it's my pleasure.
